Yesterday's Diary which included comments about the tantrums and behavior of very young children provoked a lot of comments from readers. Here are some examples of their thoughts on the matter:
I am always amazed at how many children I see on a daily basis having a public melt down on the street while the parents and/or nanny remains silent. It is not surprising that given this busy city, there is tremendous room for over-stimulation, for adults and children alike. And while tantrums are nothing new, the frequency and regularity of them strikes me as an alarming display of parenting techniques(or lack thereof).
As a child, I was mostly well behaved, in part because both my parents instilled a certain amount of fear and respect that prevented me from exercising my full lung capacity while out in public. Should I exhibit behavior that was unacceptable to them or the public at large, I was forced to pay the consequences. Whether this was a light slap on my rear end (yes, I did get spanked from time to time but never hard) or forced seclusion in my room, I learned how one is expected to behave. I am grateful to my parents for creating structure and discipline for me so that I could behave accordingly as I got older. This type of thinking has clearly gone by the way side. Children are allowed to behave as they please and often are the ones in control of the situation, even while having a tantrum.
There must be well-behaved children out there, just not in Manhattan!
Now that I live downtown, I witness less and less of these tantrums as there are less families in my neighborhood.
It would be nice to think that society as a whole will take notice of this behavior and do more to change it but I'm afraid our ear drums will all have to suffer in the mean time!
David- you are SO right about the approach to childcare today- both my husband and I were raised on the premise that we had to behave (I will say my dad took it a little too far when he spanked me at age 3 for not saying hello to someone). While our kids have their moments I am in agony when any of them has so much as a hint of a tantrum in public and quickly remove them while making sure they know thats not the way to get anything! Without a doubt the kids who are allowed to do whatever they want end up being adolescents who do whatever they want and grown ups who do whatever they want! (I bet insider traders ran rampant all over their homes!)
I have been reading New York Social Diary ever since a friend told me that a picture of my little boy and I sledding in Central Park had appeared on your website. Even though we have never been introduced, you were always friendly and pleasant if I passed you on the street or at Swifties, back when I used to do things such as meet friends for lunch. Good manners of course may not make the world go round, but it certainly greases the wheels.
Most parents of children of any age prize good manners and proper behavior and work to instill these values. There is, however, an increasing number of children with 'behavioral' issues. This can be a consequence of ADHD, Asperger Syndrome, or pervasive developmental delays and disorders. My own child has acquired epileptic aphasia and migraine headaches. I have been taught, by an excellent behavior therapist , to not react when a child has a public tantrum, but rather to ensure that the child and others are safe. It is critical not to feed into the attention the child may be seeking - or worse, pacify the child to keep him or her quiet. Believe it or not it is often neccessary to take the parent out of the equation when teaching a child how to behave well in a stimulating environment like NYC precisely because it is difficult for parents to remain calm and quiet during a child's 'meltdown' .
It appears from your description that the parents you saw did the right thing by not giving in to their children. Distressing to see, absolutely. Much worse however, if a child learns that tantrums will get him or her what he/she wants, without fail.
My child can get frustrated by his inability to communicate on
certain days and will pick his spots to stage a protest where he knows I will be embarrassed. When he was little, I used to take him down to Greenwich Village where there were not so many children and people were not critical at all. If my child was lying on the sidewalk in the rain while I pretended not to care, people would just say "oh, isnt he cute with his blond hair and frog wellies" On the UES, I would encounter smug parents which is hard to take. Everyone wants to be proud of their children's good manners.
I think you may know a number of parents who perhaps have to factor possible meltdowns into their lives but who want to teach their children to regulate themselves and enjoy the great city of New York.
regards,
an anonymous, faithful reader
Dear DPC:
Mega Mega thanks for being so brave in your thoughts on over-excessive-out of control "Kids", or little people, who aren't used to the word from their mommy's or nannies mouth's: NO! I applaud you for being so critically wise in your observations. You know of the horror stories of out of control kiddies in high end eating establishments making me, and other patrons trying to eat their food in peace cringe at the thought of going over to the parents and giving them some critical parental advisement. And god forbid, if we tell the managerial staff to go over and tell the 10021 stressed out mommy, her kid's a nut case, the hostile retort that might come forth along with the threat " I'm going to call my lawyer buddy, so shut your mouth".
Thanks...a grateful reader.
Thanks for your comments on the increasingly horrifying behavior of kids in public. As the owner of three small children (8, 5 & 5) I’m keenly aware of their manners and civility. Now I’ll be the first to admit that my wife and I, both in our mid 40s, are pretty old-fashioned when it comes to child-rearing. We couldn’t possibly love our children more and would honestly do anything for them, but it’s our responsibility to make sure they understand that this is an adult world, and they need to behave with some modicum of decorum. So we are persnickety when it comes to manners – at the table and in public as well – and the difference between public comportment and letting it all hang out at home. I think it irritates them a little because they see their friends being given different set of rules. Yesterday as I was supervising my son (one of the 5-year old twins) as he dressed for church, be was complaining about having to go to church and I told him that he should get used to it, because it wasn’t going to change and that’s just who we are – that’s part of our identify as a family.
I think it’s paying off because as you well know one of the driving forces behind a good set of manners is to make the people you are with feel comfortable, and to develop an empathy or awareness at least of others around you. I think our children seem to have that sensitivity. Plus, literally every time we go out to a restaurant (table for 5 please!), we get unsolicited comments from servers and fellow patrons about how well our children are behaved. If they’re loquacious, they’ll go on to lament the current state of affairs with child-rearing and the generally bad behavior of kids everywhere.
So what’s the cause? Both my wife and I had older parents who emphasized and taught us good manners. So we have good manners and understand how important they are. But not everybody does. Near where we live in Locust Valley is a very fancy, and very expensive, restaurant named Barney’s. We go there for special occasions – mainly because of the price. It’s not a children’s place – we’ve never brought our crew there, and I’ve never seen other children there. But I’ve seen plenty of bad manners there. Starting with dress. If we go to a fancy restaurant, I’ll put on a jacket and tie and my wife a dress. It’s part of the experience, and it’s just the way we are. But we’re definitely in the minority at Barney’s. Usually there’ll be several tables (it’s a small restaurant) of loud people dressed far too casually braying on about themselves and how much money they have in voices loud enough to be heard throughout the restaurant. It doesn’t take a PhD to think about what kind of behavior their kids demonstrate.
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